Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Irish and European fighting styles and techniques, and the required Arms & Armour

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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby the_power » Tue May 20, 2008 9:52 pm

Yeah, maybe it's more a hybrid. Most likley because the guy who made it was going for 'cheap', which suited me, as I was just going for something that'd take down a wooden palisade, and give me the range to stay out of stinking templar swords.

Ah Templecoome, I must go back some year (just added the photos of me with Martyn's wee glaive, now inherited by Brendan to my Photo Gallery).

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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby brendan » Wed May 21, 2008 7:56 am

you will of course notice how the somewhat dodgy surcoats hide even more dodgy kit beneath :D

It was certainly the only event I have been at where head shots were not so much allowed but the only viable attack

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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby the_power » Wed May 21, 2008 8:20 am

And no one got hurt. Well, except the on-looker who had a cardiac arrest. I think it was the only event I've been at where I've been shot at close range by a cannon of sorts. Some massive two-meter long gun that Ironhead trained on me. Only shot by grass mind, but it was still pretty scary. Strongly recommend Templecoome as a 'fun event' for any 800AD->1600AD reenactor. Vikings, Knights Hospitaller, Irish Kern, War of the Roses lads vs. Templars + Mercenenaries. Very silly.

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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby carraig » Wed May 21, 2008 10:29 pm

My opinion is that banning isn't quite the solution.
Ok, so perhaps glaives and short spears are a bit tricky, but I've noticed, that the more "unstable" a weapon is, the more attention the user pays to it (except the freaks around there, whose hands tend to turn even a carrot produced in battle into a slaughter-maker, but those induhviduals should be banned completely). For instance the worst injuries I had (one being a complete KO) were made with a wooden training-sword. Why? Because, for instance, the oponent went "sh-yeah, so it's just a piece of wood, I think he wouldn't mind if I whack him on the head". So I think instead of creating a "forbidden arms" list it's worth to make some serious competence checks. And even if someone fails one - it's a good way of teaching him to feel more serious about proper training.

Safety is very important, but not for the price of authenticity (the only exception being protective gloves & co.). For instance here in Poland many early groups have mail hauberks or another period-appropriate armour on almost every member, although in the Viking period most folks couldn't afford such a luxury. Also most used spears, often with shields, while most reenactors go for swords. Perhaps it's safer, but for me such a group loses it's authenticity. It would be much better to improve skills so people could leave swords and armor to the nobility, but most people are either lazy or preach the gospel of "No headshots - NO FUN" or create such terms as "pussy-fighting". Perhaps it's not a rule about every group, but many are just that. (that's an observation made about local groups, perhaps it's not that bad in Ireland).

Conclusion - if one wants to reenact combat typical of a period, then he needs to be sure he can handle the typical panoply of a said period before he goes anywhere near a battlefield.
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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby brendan » Wed May 21, 2008 11:12 pm

your mention of a guy hitting you on the head reminds me of a training session when I may have broken someone else's hand...with my head:
the setting: Circle of treachery, all wepons in a pile in the middle of the room. For some reason I wasnt wearing a helmet.
the event: Call came and we all piled in trying to grab weapons, pushing each other out of the way, that sort of thing.
Next thing I get an impact on the top of my head and look around.
I see a guy holding his arm with a certain amount of pain on his face - in the heat of the moment he Karate chopped me on the head (think of the Austin Powers version)

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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby Billy » Thu May 22, 2008 10:50 am

if one wants to reenact combat typical of a period, then he needs to be sure he can handle the typical panoply of a said period before he goes anywhere near a battlefield


Very true. And that should include all flavours of polearms.Don't ban them, just learn them well.

Mind you, there may be some sense in leaving flails and morningstars off the list.
Just as WWII guys wisely avoid using flamethrowers on the battlefield. (They do, right?) :shock:
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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby carraig » Thu May 22, 2008 10:59 am

I see a guy holding his arm with a certain amount of pain on his face - in the heat of the moment he Karate chopped me on the head (think of the Austin Powers version)


Ah, yes - the priceless things folks do on trainings :lol:

Mind you, there may be some sense in leaving flails and morningstars off the list.


Quite. The flail is a weapon that was more commonly used for a very short period comparing to polearms such as glaives, sparth, lochaber et consortes or even to short spears (from Iron Age up to 17th c. rapparees?). So no-one will miss them, right?..............RIGHT? :shock:

Tried a flail once. One big piece of inpredictable turd, mesays.
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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby femgeek » Thu May 22, 2008 6:04 pm

carraig wrote:Tried a flail once. One big piece of inpredictable turd, mesays.

Ah, the flail, the one weapon where you are most likely to knock yourself out :D
Heres a question regarding safety and such, it was kinda mentioned on the first page of the topic.When hitting someone in armour: I always say only hit hard enough to hear a little ding or jingle noise, so they know you've hit them. Is this ok to do? I adapted this from martial arts (like i do much of my training), so I'm just wondering is this acceptable, since I don't wear armour and I'm not full sure.
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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby admin » Thu May 22, 2008 7:02 pm

femgeek wrote:Heres a question regarding safety and such, it was kinda mentioned on the first page of the topic.When hitting someone in armour: I always say only hit hard enough to hear a little ding or jingle noise, so they know you've hit them. Is this ok to do? I adapted this from martial arts (like i do much of my training), so I'm just wondering is this acceptable, since I don't wear armour and I'm not full sure.


Armour is so the wearer is protected - it's not for the benefit of the other person.

I've had problems previously where someone went over the top going for my shield. Usually, it's enough to say "Do that again, and I'll hit you as hard as you hit my shield". Body parts heal, kit doesn't. Armour is the same. I had ribs broken at training one day, because someone thought I was wearing a gambeson...I was actually wearing a white tshirt, and he had poor eyesight.

So, yes - go gently, even on armour. And if possible, wear armour yourself. It's much more fun for the other person.

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Re: Safe weapon or safe person - using unusual weapons

Postby femgeek » Thu May 22, 2008 7:48 pm

admin wrote: I had ribs broken at training one day, because someone thought I was wearing a gambeson...I was actually wearing a white tshirt, and he had poor eyesight.
John

:shock: Thats some poor eyesight... Thanks for that though, I've only had the 'noise' control thing done with fists on flesh so I was hoping it'd work just as well on armour.
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