Medieval irish helmets

[Swifty]

[quote="Maghnus Ó Sionnaigh";Imported? I think of such extravagant styles as Italo-Norman and Rus style conical. Can you elaborate on what you mean by imported?[/quote]
Something like Plate F in 'The Normans' Osprey Elite No. 9. Ala Lewis chessmen. A bit old but far better than being a bit new.

[Maghnus Ó Sionnaigh]

Interesting. I would have figured those styles of helmets would have been, for the most part, gone from Ireland by 1290. But I guess it makes sense that the similar style would have still continued on.

So would something like this is appropriate for a 1290 persona?

[the_power]

The cheek pieces seem excessive, but if you have to deal with the safety aspect, it's not a bad choice at all.

John

[Swifty]

[quote="Maghnus Ó Sionnaigh"; this is appropriate for a 1290 persona?[/quote]
I don't see why not - that helmet bears a reasonable likeness to the Lewis-type helmets. Yes it could be argued that it is a little anachronistic, but anachronistic in the right direction - backwards. Various secondary sources on the Battle of Bannockburn (1314) written by respected scholars in the genre depict Islesmen in similar conical/nasal helmets - so Irish wearing same in 1290 is not so problematic. Some sort of kettle-helmet could be another option - but I prefer the nasal, more character - and the source is Gaelic. I think it would look better if you aged it down to a burnished/blackened finish. Btw SCA face-guards... bleurrghhhh!! Hey - just my opinion, nobody listens to me anyway ; )

[Maghnus Ó Sionnaigh]

Well, at least I can plausibly go with my second favorite type of helm. And I was so hoping to kill an Englishman and take his sugarloaf... And I wouldn't have to worry about "those ugly SCA faceguards" with a great helm. The "Heroic Age"-ers will never let me live it down if I wear a Norman.

But I digress. Is there any evidence, either in manuscript or pictorial for the wearing of an aventail or camail with any type of helm? Something like this. Anachronistic as hell, but helms and maille just look sweet together.

As an aside, can you tell me those sources you mentioned, Swifty? I doubt I can actually find anything resembling a copy of them here in the states, but I've been known to get lucky...

[kevin714]

What are opinions on this helmet depicting those described for 14th century Irish wearing "round iron helmets similiar to the saracens". Its being sold on a website called I love swords.com.

[the_power]

It certainly doesn't look much 'viking'. I'd categorise it as 'inoffensive' - little more than a skullcap. If someone turned up at my 14thC gig wearing it, I'd say "looks safe", rather than "wow, that looks perfect for 14thC Ireland". Depends how you want to do it - are you happy with "could be right" ? I'm afraid thats all you can do for 14thC Ireland - we don't have depictions of many troops, and when we do, they are just in hoods, not helmets. That said..that helm would fit neatly inside a hood.

John

[Dave Mooney]

What about the point? seems to have a point in that pic. Does that date it at all?

[brendan]

I think that the points are fairly common in middle east helms for most time periods (open to correction).
So, if the aim is to look somewhat middle eastern then OK.

Of course, by saying that the Irish dress like Saracens it is implying that they are a bunch of heathen savages that need to be subdued and civilized by their betters (and helps justify the crusades into Connaught)

Brendan

[kevin714]

The quote about the saracens was made by a spanish visitor to the O'Neills in Ulster in 1396 so I don't think it was as biased as you think.